On my subharmonicon patch there is a big button labelled ‘octave +/-3’, it does exactly what you describe and transposes the whole (sequence, all 6 oscillators) up or down by 3 octaves (6 octave range). One button controls all 6 oscillators’ octave inputs,… except we don’t really need the multiple module in virtual land, we can connect multiple plugs from 1 output.
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Hmmm. Thanks. I feel like I should almost stop as I need to check out all these options I keep asking about. lol
Seriously, thanks though.
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No problem, ask away… if I don’t know, I won’t try to bluff it. I’ve been using synths, samplers every day for 30+ years, which means, I don’t know everything 
I can talk about synths all day long.
Hi Runcell, to clarify, the Tidal Modular is there so the user has the option of square and saw waves. The RGATE sends out square wave and the Tidal Modular saw. The gate out from the RGATE goes to the clock input of the Tidal Modular so they play the same pitch.
On the hardware Moog Subharmonicon, there is a choice of square and saw for all of the oscillators and subharmonic oscillators. I was trying to reproduce those options.
Cheers
Phil
With Omri’s video he is using the frequency dividers to send out frequencies that behave like the Moog Subharmonicon. That means the divisions follow the harmonic series going down instead of up. So, that means octave, then octave/fifth, 2 octaves, 2 octaves/major third, etc, etc. Clearly these go out of tune the low the subharmonic.
Phil
I see, Ok, first the Rgate outputs gates only… it is not audio waves that it puts out. It might look like square waves on a scope, but I promise you, they are not. They are gates and gates have a voltage range of 10 volts from zero to +10… any thing less and the device that the gates are controlling will probably not respond. Gates are like an on/off switch… with a 50% (pulse) width and triggers are the same with a 1 or 2% pulse width. They trigger things, and keep things in time/sync etc…
must dash… back soon
Sorry about that… where were we… Square waves… are positive to negative and can be used as quasi-gates but best to get the basics nailed down first.
The switching - is done with the BOG AUDIO SWITCH. There are 10 oscillators in your patch for a 6 oscillator synth. Like Omri has done, only 1 oscillator is needed to switch between saw wave and square wave, the BEFACO EVEN VCO has outputs for each… So, all you have to do is plug from saw wave out to input A on the switch, then (from the same OSC) plug the square wave out to input B on the switch. The output of the switch plugs into a mixer. Select LATCH so that when the switch is pressed it holds its position (A position is saw, B position is square) and what I’ve done in my patch (that Omri didn’t) is connect a big button to the gate input, so that I don’t have to zoom in to hit that tiny button each time I need to change waveforms…
The oscillators in the hardware Subharmonicon may be one oscillator, divided down twice to get the 2 subs…OR there could well be 6 individual oscillators in there… I wouldn’t know without looking at the service manual… BUT the end results will be the same and the principals are the same… you need to get 6 …er…voices so to speak - Oscillator 1 plus the 2 subs and Oscillator 2 plus the 2 subs…
…And what Omri did was to divide the first so that it was 1 octave below OSC 1 (8 whole tones or 12 semi-tones) not a fifth. The second sub OSC was divided from the first divider then to the second divider, so half then half again -2octaves.
I hope that helps a little… if you need any clarifications at all, just post em’ up, happy to help
runcell
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Hi @Runcell, some very good point which have got me thinking - more of that later.
FYI in the hardware Eurorack/Modular Synch scene, it is common practice to use clock dividers as subharmonic oscillators by sending audio rate signals to the input. It is also common practice to use function generators - like rampage - and get similar results by using the ‘rise’ slider to transpose the audio rate signal - or self oscillating looping generator - downwards to get ‘subharmonics’. Clearly this is a ‘poor person’s method’ as the result are glitchy but we do get an audio signal that is sort of like an oscillator.
I agree that the output of an RGATE is not a true square wave but when processing audio rate signals the CLK DIV knob behaves a bit like the subharmonic oscillator on a Moog Subharmonic synth.
NOW, your post got me thinking and it is possible to make a unipolar square wave into a bipolar square if you with use a polarizer or attenuverter. see attached screenshot - sorry for using VCV 
Best
Phil
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You can take a 0 to 10 volt gate and adjust the offset with BEFACO attenuverter so that it’s +/-5 volts… the only problem is that, to tune it you need to adjust the tempo… it’s advanced stuff. First you need to know the rules to know how and when to break them really.
Edit - a gate that is offset to +/-5v and with a pulse width of 50% IS then a square wave… the problem then is controlling the frequency so that it plays in tune.
I recreated the patch from the pic and whilst it works for square waves, when you plug a saw wave into Rgate you still get a square wave out. So for the Subharmonicon purposes, it does not work.
That is why I was using the Tidal Modular - so we could have a choice of square and saw. A sort of square from the RGATE and a saw from Tidal Modular.
I agree the audio quality is compromised if you want to have saw waves for the subharmonics. For me it is just about ok if you are happy to have sort of squares for the subharmonics but have the choice of square or say for the ‘main’ oscillators.
I just tried the polarizer and it sounded awful.
Phil
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The audio quality may well be bad, that is because you are using a module for something completely different to what it was designed to do…And not only that but saw wave in, square wave out is totally not what we want for the Subharmonicon. What you may be referring to is coupling… in the same way that count modula divides audio and clock signals.
Like I said, you do not really need the TIDAL MODULATORS in there, because you have the 6 BEFACO oscillators for the 6 voices.
I recommend you re-read post 26, from The switching -
While my version is probably the roughest sounding of the three which we have produced, I like the sound of it, not that it is better than the others. It is a choice that can be made depending on what kind of sound you want.
Using modules for unintended purposes is fantastic in getting different results. What I do appreciate about the comments is find out what they were really intended and how they can be used in the conventional sense. I am still learning so it really helps.
The great thing about software is that there is little chance of letting out the magic smoke of the hardware. Not that that cannot happen. I burned out the Wifi radio on my phone after turning it on and off 15 - 20 times a day for over a year. It saved battery power.
Btw, I did notice that the RGATE output was twice the amplitude of the VCOs. An attenuator module out take care of that.
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Yes using modules for purposes other than intended can indeed produce some great results, but takes good understanding. You have to know the rules to know you’re breaking them… And in this case, for the Subharmonicon it is not necessary.
We do not have a Count modula (or similar) in miRack, therefore the most simple (workaround) way to achieve the 3 voices per oscillator is to use 3 oscillators per oscillator and set the octave dial down 1 octave for sub 1 and down 2 octaves for sub 2. No need to do any frequency division and we can’t in miRack anyway, its a workaround.
-Be electric, and take the path of least resistance and keep it simple
runcell
Yes, I see after looking at your version that mine was over-designed. However, it does have some useful features that would require something else to get there - you can change the sawtooth wave from falling to rising and into a triangle on the way for the suboscillators. I found it takes a little tweaking of the VCA and VCF Envelopes to make a difference.
I do like that saying: “you have to know the rules before you can break them.” It definitely makes sense to me, knowing first, etc.
I have to disagree about knowing the rules before you break them. That is like telling someone they have to take on board 18th century harmony, spend years fully learning the rules and replicating out of date music before they start to use dissonance. And yes, I did study classical music, but I have been playing rule braking music since I was 18 - and that is a very long time ago.
One of the great things about the real Moog Subharmonicon - and something none of us has reproduced - is the fact it is great for drones. The drones work best - imho- when the subharmonics are working as intended. I feel that it is quite easy to create a satisfactory drone machine using two evenVCO’s - for the main oscillators - and a pair of RGATEs with each of the main oscillator for the subharmonics. Each main oscillator with their subharmonics would have their own mixer and - so two mixers - and I would send the mixers through a stereo filter. I guess I am thinking of a Subharmonicon/Lyra 8.
In terms of the making a Subharmonicon in miRack, I agree that using 6 oscillators is the best work around for audio quality but I want the ‘subharmonic oscillators’ to behave like the subharmonic oscillators on the Moog Subharmonicon in terms of how they are intended to work which means not only switching between octaves but also major thirds, perfect fifths, minor sevenths, minor 9ths, etc, etc so that we get the harmonic series going downwards.
Phil
Phil I’ve not even looked at a Subharmonicon until about 2 days ago, I do not know their exact workings, I have only followed Omri’s video and looked at front panel pictures. Omri’s design uses count modular to divide down the subs… I’m not sure that is the way the real Subharmonicon works or not… for example on the hardware unit you can switch between saw wave and square wave or both together… it’s a 3 way switch and Omri did not incorporate that into his patch.
Some of the dials (Tact controllers) that I left out from my patch are the pitch dials for the sub oscillators… these are for pitching to 5th’s, 4th’s and so on.
A divider like count modula divides the frequency by half… 1 octave.
Hope you understand
runcell
I can build a more faithful Subharmonicon if you like, including all of the front panel dials and even the patchbay (because it’s 4x8 we have 8x8 matrix’ in miRack) is possible.
The point about knowing the rules before you break them is more about having an understanding of what you are doing. Then, when you need to use a system that goes outside the norm, you know why you are doing it and sometimes how to do it.
It could be argued both ways that when I was searching for something that would produce a sawtooth wave and accommodate frequency division, I both knew and did not know what I was doing.
I am not all that experienced with synths so I was not really limited in my thinking that only modules that had specific functions were limited to that function. But, I knew enough that to tell myself that I would need to do something unconventional to come up with a solution.
Knowing the rules before you break them is not a rule carved in stone, imo. I just appreciate the reason for using it.
Once my Subharmonicon arrives, I will be able to make some comparisons and hopefully, be able to produce something closer to the original.
I have to say that I am finding everybody’s version to be great. Reproducing a synth this complex (not necessarily the hardest to reproduce) has been fun and very educational. Although, looking at the CPU on my version, I think I win the contest for highest CPU usage!
That would be cool - to build a more faithful Subharmonicon - if you have the time and energy to do it.
I need to look more closely at the Count Modular frequency divider, but I presumed it behaved like a subharmonic oscillator in the way it transposed the frequency down.
Cheers
Phil
Count modula is not an oscillator. It is just a frequency divider. If a 500Hz wave plugs to the input, then a 250Hz wave comes out the other side… And because it is ac coupled it allows ac and dc voltages ie audio and clock/gate pulses.
All you really need is 6 voices. Subharmonic, sub = lower, harmonic = in tune. You don’t need to complicate it. We cannot do freq div in mirack so to solve that problem we use a seperate 2 oscillators for the subs instead…principals are the same, 6 voices.
If I build a more faithful recreation it will still have 6 oscillators and not 2 oscillators with subs frequency divided.
That’s great to hear @playinmyblues… you could do a comparison to some MiRack versions.
Do you have any others like DFAM, or mother32 etc ?
edit - with regards to cpu usage, if you can keep the module count down, then all the better for the cpu… ie if you can achieve something with 1 module, is better (for cpu) than using 5 modules to get the same results.